irfan dama: good afternoonladies and gentlemen. as we say in india, [hindi],brothers and sisters. it's so good to be herewith such a good turnout. that's excellent. my name is irfan. i am the chef at baadal,the indian restaurant at the far end of crittenden. the one that everyone complainsabout because it is so far. it takes a long bikeride to get there.
i'm the chef of thefirst indian restaurants. i cook indian food asa fashion and today is extremely exciting dayfor me because today it seems like theteacher has come home. and when the teachercomes to your doorstep, it is a day you are ecstatic. and i'm really, really pleasedto present today's guest. he was born in amritsar. he is a michelin starred guest.
he is a filmmaker,a humanitarian, and the host of "masterchef india," which is a show that's basedon "master chef uk." he has studied inprestigious institutes in india, including the welcomegroups school of hotels, has worked at the taj group,the oberoi, the leela group. for those are notfrom india, this is probably strange to you, butfor us who grew up in india, these were institutionsto be associated with
and he has been in all of them. he's also studied at theculinary institute of america, cornell university, the new yorkuniversity, and le cordon bleu. he's no strangerto the television. he was a consultant chefon gordon ramsay's tv show "kitchen nightmares." he appeared as a judge andindian cuisine specialist on the two part seasonfinale of "hell's kitchen." he appeared on "throwdownwith bobby flay" as a judge.
but if he actually threwdown with bobby flay, i'm sure he would have won. and he's also been on the indiashow the martha stewart's show telecast on march, 2011. he's hosted the"master chef india"-- two seasons, i believe,the second season. four seasons. i'm a little behind. he has authored-- says 13 books,but i think it's more now.
but "spice storyof india," "more than indian cooking,""flavors first," and now "return to rivers." i am so proud to presentmr. vikas khanna. welcome, vikas. please take a seat. we're going to sit togetherlike we like each other. so, vikas, how have you been? how have given it inthe bay area so far?
tell us about yourfirst impression. vikas khanna: i'ma total new yorker. no drivers license, no patience,but everything but the biz. because from my hometown ilanded straight in manhattan. it's like those movies you'vewatched and they got freedom and they came to america. it could be afterworld war ii, but i think i was fighting a warwith myself to come to u.s. but, besides that,it's fantastic.
it doesn't stop snowingwhen you're in new york. we love the pictures, but tobe in the real the pictures, it's horrible. and i love the sun here. and it's thanks to andrea,who got me to the west coast. and it was on my agenda. i live in californiafor some time. but it's a great placebecause i have so much respect for all of you because youall have driver's licenses
and you drive so well. i can only drive inmy hometown in amitsar because i know all thecops and nobody stops me. and you can go anywhere. and it's total freedom, i think. but besides thati'm so proud to be-- you're actually the firstfew people in america who are seeing thisbook and it's something about-- there's somethingvery strange about holding
your book. because you see the roughdrafts and you do the sketching. i wrote this whole book inpunjabi, my native language, and then we couldn'tfind anywhere to translate that to english. i call this book as assymbol of rebirth for me. i don't know if i canever do this book again. it's very scary. because i remember oneinterview i read as a child
for tanzig-- theguy who climbed mt. everest. what was that? tenzig. in punjabi we call him tanzig. so he climbed mount everest. and when he came downon the ground base, he was asked, how do you feel. he said, i feel very sad.
he said, why. he said, because i will neverfind another everest to climb. this was the highest peak. so, in this book i washolding it first time when it came to me. i felt i've touched mymount everest, because it was about-- i challengedmyself so much in this book. i wrote this book when iwas totally unemployed. i have no shame sayingthis in america.
i had just closed my thirdrestaurant and i was on my way to nowhere. and here i'm locking thedoor of my restaurant and a call comes frommy friend tashi saying that his holiness, thedalai lama, is in town. would you like to meet him? and my question was why. i'm just doing a walkof shame for my life and this was 2005 end.
so, these thingsare not in the book. so, it's important when i'mdoing something like the book i tell the something which istotally true story about what is behind the glamourand the real project. i had no reason togo to his holiness, but i still went there. i went to beacontheater-- beacon theater it's calledon 73rd street? beacon theater, and therewere probably 3,000 people.
and wen his holinesscomes he has a more impact than presidentobama comes to new york city. when the president comesand the streets are blocked, we all criticize him. go back to washington! but we never saythat to his holiness. and something about thatsacred power of his leadership, the way he leads us. i go and meet him.
i still have to pay somany bills that day. i didn't care. i just wanted to see him. i don't know why. so, eventually i wentthere big face of shame and everybody asks, oh,another restaurant closed. [laughs] you will neverlearn how to cook. i'm like, ok. and this is the firstperson i met right
at the beacon theater. i said, i don'tknow why it closed. it was a big building lawsuit. oh, everybody says that. we have a lease problem. [laughs] so i very quietly, humblystood last in the line. and his holinessstarts walking-- and this is somethingwhich is very
surreal-- it's called surreal. a double r, i think. so, i'm walking-- i'min the last of the line and his holiness comes. and i don't know what happened. he's a short manwith a huge presence. just humbly bowsand keeps walking. and he comes and touchesmy forehead, like this, and touches his heart.
and he ha beautiful silk cloth. just hands it over to me. and just goes away asif nothing happened. so there's another americangirl standing behind me. she just pushes meand says, f-you. and i'm like, what did i do. she's saying, oh, youhave bollywood affect. i said, i didn't do anything. i'm like, i didn't evenknow what happen to me.
she was so angry at me. why didn't it happen to her. i'm like, i'm sorry,what happened actually? so, i didn't know what happened. but i went to the lecture,which i was not going to attend. i just went as a promiseto my friend tashi. and i go and sit in thelecture and his holiness sits there so quietly. and i remember he wassneezing that day.
and he had thissmall handkerchief, which he would put backin the clothes he wears. and he would sneeze like this. and it was so real. he's a symbol of something sohigh and even he has a cold. i'm just thinking about that. and then he talks about that. you think there's nothinghas end ever in life. it's always changingof form and structure.
i think people whothink it's the end, they're not seeing beyondwhat they can achieve. and i was that one person whothought it was the end for me. i go back home in the night. i called my mom early inthe morning and said, mom, i met his holiness dalai lama. and she says, ok. i said i'm going tofinish my project. she said, which project?
i said, "return to the rivers." she said, what is that? i said, mom, that's-- thisis a conversation you have in your native language. she said, what's that? i said, it's my book onhimal-- she's like, oh, no, no, don't write another book. nobody buys your books. i was like, ohmom, that helps me.
she says, remember lasttime you wrote a book and you said yousold two copies. i said, yeah, but i bought one,so i just sold one actually. she's like, why are youwriting another book? she's like, isn't that enoughthat your restaurant is closed and you don't have a job. and i said, mom,it's not enough. it's just not enough. so she said, wheredo you want to go?
i said, i want to go to bhutan. and she said, where's that? i said it's up in the mountainssomewhere in the himalayas. so she booked me a ticketfrom new york to bhutan. and that is when the realjourney started for this book. i go to bhutan-- if youguys know about bhutan you must google-- theydon't have per capita income or anything like that. they have per happinessincome, that kind of thing.
i don't know what they call it. it's something which isclosest to living in paradise. that place just sucked me in. i landed, and you have toland through the valley, the mountains. the plane goes like this. and then the aircraft lands. it's a palace. nobody disturbed nature.
nothing. there were stories aboutthat place which i will never be able to forgetever in my life. so i was totally inlove with that place. i said this is fantasticto begin writing and rediscovered yourself. all of the lessons what werein the book started from there. when i finishedthere-- i was there for almost 2 and 1/2 weeks.
i called my mom. can you book me to tibet? and she said, where is that. it's like, come on, ma,don't ask me these questions. just call the agent and book mea ticket from-- and she said, oh, this is a veryexpensive ticket. i said, ok. so i said, then i'mgoing to katmandu. i don't come fromvery huge background.
i figured out, ok,i'm going to take a bus from paro to katmandu. it took me threedays, but that was ok. and not that anything washappening in my life that time; it's like nobody neededme at that point. and i started traveling by bus. and i figured out thatthe most beautiful stories happen when you'renot in your comfort zone, when you're being awake.
there's an american philosopher. i can't pronounce his name,so i don't want to insult him. so he said that when youlook back in your life, your life will not bedefined about the nights you slept so well. they'll be defined bythose sleepless nights. i can spell his name, butit was a difficult name. but i like that,because all these nights i was up and thinking what doi want to do with this book?
the whole project wasabout 2,600 pages. and i finished it inalmost five years. that time, junoon was beingborn at one time of my life. in 1990, i read onearticle that india is one of the fastest growingcountries in population. but it's a shame, we willnever get a michelin star. and i said, whatis a michelin star? there was no google-- sorry,i'm in a google office. [laughter]
vikas khanna: so youcouldn't google anything. so you don't know whatmichelin star was. but you don't havemuch reference of books at that point. you know, every time youread some of my books, i'll saw we grew upin a pre-google age, where had one newspapercoming to my hometown. and there was noinformation besides that. so here you're writing aboutsuch a foreign culture, which
is in between china and india. and there are so manybeautiful countries which are dominated by thiswhole cultures of tibet, nepal, bhutan, burma, northpakistan, north india. i thought this was thestrip i must focus on. and this is what i continued. and that's why the book is born. irfan dama: what a fascinatingstory, seriously fascinating. but what i love about it isi love with what humility
you talk aboutfailures in your life. you have mentioned ofone of the interviews that i was seeing that whenyou first came to new york, you literallystarted with nothing. you had $3 in your pocket. and you ended up ata homeless shelter. vikas khanna: christmas. irfan dama: and youstayed there for a while. you got a blanket from someone.
tell us about the experience. you had a businessin india, correct? vikas khanna: yes. irfan dama: and thenyou came to new york. so my question is whatdrew you to new york? and you were at apoint where-- it scares most of ussitting in this room-- to be ever at that situation,to be in a homeless shelter. and you came out of that.
so i'd love to knowabout that experience. so it's a touching story. please tell us about it. vikas khanna: i came to americain december-- not in december. my [inaudible] hit me. it's on december. you don't live in calendars. this is how i had to-- i neverwent to proper english schools, so i think it's my ability.
it's not somethingwhich i should feel i lack behind something. because then i couldfigure out my publisher, she always says thatgrammar is not a language. there's only one language,and that's the heart. so i don't worry about grammar. they'll figure out in a nonce. i came on december 2 to america. there's an author in american.
his name is richard bach. some of us must haveread this book called "jonathan livingston seagull." that was the firstbook i ever read by an american author--my brother gave it to me-- in which jonathanwanted to fly higher. but where i come from, it wasa very homogeneous structure of life, where weonly ate a few dishes. and besides, thatwas not our cuisine.
and we will not accept it. you know, that happens. but i came toamerica-- i don't know, i think richardbach-- that book, really-- that 80-pagebook was my bible. and like a little childwho likes to repeat, i would keep repeatingreading that again and again. my brother would say thatmaybe you don't understand. that's why you have toread it so many times.
i said, it's a verydifficult book, actually. but how did he figure out tofly higher than everyone else? and i don't understand thestory of going back home. why did he go back? and he wanted to teacheverybody to be independent and to be-- that whole conceptof american individualism. i was so moved by this. i said, no, we haveto live in groups, like in how we live back home.
everybody has to livea kind of similar life. and everybody has to livealmost in that group. so jonathan livingstonseagull will never be born, sometimes you feel. but i wanted to besomebody who defines cooking in a different way. and that is may be one ofthe biggest reasons why i wanted to be at the greateststage of cooking of manhattan. i don't know, butmaybe that's what
we call destiny,which we can't define. but i came here. and i don't knowif you remember, if anybody has landedin new york pre-9/11, it was a very different country. 9/11 changed so muchof our priorities. it changed our mindsets. even if you look atthe literature written by american authors before9/11 and after 9/11,
there's such astrong subconscious shift which has happened. because i was right there, wheneverything started changing. i was standing right salaambombay restaurant, just almost like 1 and 1/2 blocksaway from the site. i saw that shift. and that is somethingwhich has really got me so moved aboutthe understanding that this countryis forever evolving.
it is somethingwhich is the spirit is about-- it's so invincible,that they reinvent themselves. and that was somethingso important for me. but before that, i rememberthat subway used to cost $1.50. and i go to a restaurant--i don't have a cell phone. initially, at that point, youdon't have prepaid phones. you only could get a phonewith a social security. irfan dama: right. vikas khanna: i neverhad a social security,
so like, you know, thosetotally-- i can call myself, yeah, i was illegalat that time. i have forgot what was legal. i said oh, i have a 10-yearsvisa to come to america. i'm not illegal. sir, it was expired. irfan dama: wow. vikas khanna: your entry was. and i'm like i had noidea about those things.
i was just come hereto american to cook. i didn't have to worryabout all of these things. we never worriedabout these things. so i didn't have money. but i only had $3. so i'm going to the restaurant. the restaurant is closed. nobody informed me. nobody called me.
and on christmas day, therestaurants are closed. so i'm walking up onbroadway near canal street. and there's a line of people. and i'm standing in the line. and a lady comes, and shehands over to me a blanket. this is 2000, december 25. and exactly what i needed. i needed a blanket that time. i was shivering.
and my socks were wet. it had just stop raining. and she tells me,merry christmas. i don't know what happened. i just hugged her. i said, thank you. i needed this. i said what is this line for? this is the homeless shelter,new york rescue mission.
and now i go to newyork rescue mission. i'm a part of there. i love everything aboutwhat they stand for. i think at thatpoint, you need hope, more than you need shelter,more than you need food, more than you need a blanket. you need a hope thatit's going to be ok. it's ok. god is also saying,ok, i didn't create you
as a very intelligent creature,but i'm not repenting it, because i feel that you willfind your way back home. and one day, eventually,you will find your destiny. all you have to do iskeep your head high. and i remember when they gaveme shelter to live there too. and i was so happy to save $3that i don't have to eat out. i don't have to tryto take a subway. and you know, it's ok. in this country, you can talkabout reinventing and falling
flat on the-- andi like when oprah said it's great tofall on the ground. you see the world in atotal new perspective. it's absolutely true. and when you havefallen to the point when you don't know if you'llever get a next meal or not, or you'll be thrownout of your apartment, you have such a differentperspective of success when you get it.
irfan dama: that is true. and they say it's not abouthow many times you fall, it's how quickly you getup that makes a difference. but what is reallyimpressive to see is you've gone through yourfair share of hardships. you just mentioned that youhad a third restaurant that closed down. and seeing where you are today,it must have changed you. vikas khanna:there was one thing
which was verystranger which always happened to me for a long time. i'll tell you a small incident. i used to live in queens. and when everybody come, most ofthe immigrants live in queens. i mean, take number 7. that's the best train even now. it's a favorite train. so i'm sitting nextto us a sardar-ji,
like a sikh guy, who'selderly, like he must be 70s. so he's asking me, like,son, what do you do? i said i make-- youknow, in my culture, we don't say i make food. we say [hindi]. it means "i make bread." it's such a complexlanguage, the whole concept of so many languagesin one country. so we never say "i cook food."
you always say "icook bread" when you translate it in english. so i said [hindi]. he's saying, oh, don't worry. one day, you'll get a good job. i said, no! vikas khanna: i said, butthat's all i know how to do. he's saying, whydon't you drive a cab. vikas khanna: i said, idon't have driver's license.
he said oh, that's why you cook. i said-- vikas khanna: so he'ssaying, oh, no, no. you are young. you know, you could do doubleshifts in cab and everything. you can do good money. i'll put you through. you look like a decent guy. and i'm, like, but ionly know how to cook.
he said, oh my god, you'rereally dumb, he's telling me. vikas khanna: and then he askedme, so you have any future? i said, yeah, i'vebeen making food. he said, why, you don't needany training to make food. and then he asked me thisvery simple question, which has never left me. he saw that i wasnot moving away from this concept of that"i cook bread," literally. so he's saying, wheredid you learn from?
i said, i learned it frommy grandmother's kitchen. and also, i learned how toroll a bread at the golden temple, which is like a bigtemple in amritsar, which is where i was raised. and he took myhand and kissed it. he's saying-- prasaab-dhameans god's food. he's saying go andserve god's food. he's saying, youcontinue to do that. he's saying, you don't haveto drive a cab, don't worry.
it's interesting. i guess, hardships changepeople in different ways. some people, whenthey get to success, they forget aboutwhere they came from. but obviously, you haven't. you've set up a number ofhumanitarian organizations, the big one being sakivand cooking for life. so can you tell us somethingabout these humanitarian organizations that you havecreated, and what's it about?
vikas khanna: it was after 9/11. it struck a chord in yourheart in a different way. you figured out that one thingwhich will always sustain us is togetherness. and i remember thati was at the site. and people were alittle bit-- because i look so much like my "cousins." so some people weregetting worried about me, like what are youdoing on this site?
and it was fear is avery dangerous thing. it is not hatred. hatred is a verysmall part of fear. what are you doing here? and i'm, like, i want to help. so the restaurant wasright across the street from the site. so every single day--initially nobody would come-- but every singleday, outside the restaurant
salaam bombay, i'll put asmall buffet for all the people who are volunteeringat the site. i will make onebiriyani, one dhal, and i'll have some fresh breads. because nobody wascoming to the restaurant. after that, that area just died. tribeca startedcrumbling, because nobody wanted to take it asa tourist destination. you don't want to go--and people would tell me
we don't want to go out and eat. i would tell myfriends, please, come in and support my restaurant. and they will say, i don'twant to eat near a graveyard. and that would be,like, oh my god, would i ever get out of this? it was, like,something which was so scary for an immigrantwho was brown at that point, standing right on the site, whowanted to be of some support
to even one soul at that point. and at that same point, wehad some riots in queens. and a lot of sikhswere-- there was a bit assault and everything. and that is, again, pre-google. and we don't have those images. right now, we can get imagesof what is a "lunger." "lunger" is acommunity kitchen which comes from thesikh temples, where
the whole institutionof sikhism is based on that everyone is equal. there's no sense of divisionof societies in them. so when you lookat lunger, where i learned how to cook-- soi drew a painting of a sikh who was serving a littlechild, a beggar child. i don't know i wasimagining myself as a child or i was imagining myselfas-- so i drew a sketch, and i stood on the site.
and i kept telling people,you know, these are sikhs. they are different. these are the peoplewho actually raised me. and there was oneprofessor from nyu. he asked me saying,why're you doing this? i said, even if i could tell oneperson the story of who we are. everybody has totell their own story. and he said continue to do this. this is the conviction whichwill make you stand out
in the united states of america,that i saw you standing there for two hours. no one spoke to you. you were invisible. vikas khanna: he's sayingyou're invisible right now. but as long as you believeit, you will become visible. so this plaque what you'reholding it, don't forget it. this is something whichis representing you and york city and your people.
don't forget it. and i remember that was avery important somebody patted on her back, on like thatwomen who gave me blanket. it was a similar kindof moment for me. when i said that it is veryimportant if you believe in something, you'vegot to stand up. if you need to be counted,you need to stand up. and that is somethingwhich i learned because i was born with a verystrange physical disability,
in which i never playedthroughout my childhood. so i have no memory ofme playing at as a child. i had club feet, which is a verycommon problem in first world countries, but in my part ofthe world, that's a big problem. your feet are inside,you're a ghost. "but mummy, i'm a ghost." that's what everybodyin the class tells me. but you learned how to stood up. and that is what i felt that itis very important that what you
do is it cannot comefrom anywhere else. the source has to be within you. and i know, being a chef--some people tell me. just go care, who careswhat you're saying? no, it's important. it's important that ishare in what i believe in. because what'll happen that thisall of these stories add up. and they become a smallepic of our own life. and that is whatmy mom taught me.
she's saying if somebodysays that you're a ghost, tell themthank you, angel. vikas khanna: and i did that. i said, oh yeah. so the foundationsall of us started based on that there was anequal amount of awareness. there was some things i did withthe egyptian government right before they collapsed. and i wanted to have moreaccessibility on the world
wonders. now, you would saywhy would you do that? yeah, i figured out thatit was difficult for me to access some blessed places. so sakiv was so muchbased on creating events. we did events at thepyramids, at the taj mahal. i want planning anext one in brazil. maybe collect chefs and theyall put the energy and food into it.
you create awareness of events. it's important. irfan dama: mmm-hmm. i agree. not to forgetwhere we come from. i want to spend some timetalking about your book. you've told us how longyou took to write the book. it's a big work in progress. but the most interesting thing--there are a couple of things.
i glanced through your book. and we spoke aboutit over lunch. i hope you enjoyedlunch, by the way. vikas khanna: yes, great. irfan dama: it's abig honor to have vikas eating at my restaurant. that's so awesome. google's restaurant,i just [inaudible]. irfan dama: fyi.
[hindi] vikas khanna: we take everythingwhat we're successful. all successful things are ours. irfan dama: but the one thingthat i loved about the book is you started with thebuddhist mealtime prayer. and how do people in thehimalayan river valley-- how do they view theirmeals and the food they eat? and how is it sodifferent from what the americans do andtheir approach to food.
vikas khanna: see, ifind it very difficult to compare two cultures. i have always hadthis problem of living in two different countries. but one thing which ilove about appreciation of, when people have sucha high regard of, sharing. and there's a buddhistmeal time prayer. and the book starts with,saying that every grain is a the sacrifice of life.
may i be worthyof that sacrifice. may my unwholesomequalities turn to wholesome qualitieswhen i consume this life. i thought that wassomething so beautiful, because even if you'reconsuming rice, that has life. it has the potential tomorrowto fight against the gravity and rise to the sunand create a new crop. that is sexy! vikas khanna: when we lookat the magic of soil--
we saw the movie "vaali." and i was so affectedby "vaali" that it is all about thatlittle sprout which defines our existenceon the planet. and that buddhistmeal time prayer made me feel aboutthe little grain, that we are all-- theday that we don't see it, we are all struggling forthat little sprout, which we don't even think isso and in this prayer,
they made that sprout asthe center of the universe. vikas khanna: so i wasi said the book has to start from that kind of note. and how americanseat differently. what americans can do, therest of the world can do. we could create google. the world just follows. i was googlinggoogle headquarters and doesn't google maps beforecoming to the google office.
how can you googlemore than that? irfan dama: exactly. vikas khanna: i'm likeare you serious, man? as you know, onething we also have to understand that americais a reflection of the world. we see traces of the wholeworld in the american hope or american dream. it's like there's somethingso powerful when you have, when you meet americankids who are--
and i feel proudevery day to be part of that cycle insome way at least. even if i'm in thekitchen in junoon. and i'm feeding that creativityof the american mind. this book-- on thishigh commission could be produced in america,because of the american-- that curiosity to know more. and in this book isaid there are so many places where lotof people will not
be able to travel to mustang,which is northeast of nepal, where nepal peoplehave not gone. and it's like, it's so manydifficult places that where i went to. and i said wherepeople can't travel, i'm doing a smallthing of bringing that small piece of land ofhimalayas to their kitchens through this book. so when you look at the americancreativity of thought process,
that is somethingwhich is so different. the way americans think,they way they write, the way they approachin a very global way. that is somethingwhich we all gravitate, and we aspire from it. i could have never thought thisas a very important project if i was living in amritsar. vikas khanna: i possiblywould've never taught that himalayas could besomething so large and massive
and splendor of the food andthe culture and the people. till you came to americaand you figured out that it's so important. irfan dama: i glancedthrough the book. the book trulyexcited me-- mostly. [hindi] i'm going toget you to sign it. no, i got this. but i read through this. and a lot of the recipesreally fascinated me.
and i'm definitely going to usethese recipes in my restaurant. i'm going to havea vikas khanna day. i love so many--the simplicity is what touched me-- thesimple mustard greens. they're such incrediblysimple dishes, but the one thing--and i told you i was going to ask you thisquestion-- is about the 108 caves of meditation potatoes. vikas khanna: yeah, yeah.
it's a very interesting place. it's near llasa. it's approximately three hoursdrive from llasa in tibet. and i went to tibetbecause-- we all go to tibet becausewe love his holiness. it's somethingabout potala palace, which is the-- and potala isfantastic, if anybody has not googled it, must google it. it had a red sideand the white side.
right side is the parliamentor the political side. so he says the white sideis a spirituality side. so he says that both teamshave been balanced in sync. and it is like approximatelythree hours from there. there is a place where theyhave 108 caves on the mountains. so i decided one day i'm goingto go to all those 118 caves. and on the way, theyhad these two things which were fantastic. one is they servedthese potatoes, which
are boiled potatoes, andthey come in a plastic bag and with chopsticks. and you keep feedingthat starch as you travel through these mountains. and there was a secondthing which was so shocking. it's a true exampleof our existence that how we define ourcuisines and how we actually continue to live and thrive. vikas khanna: they hadmade a small kind of a-- it
looked like a soap-- a batchof potato starch, which was boiled, and madeinto this small block. it was sitting there. and it's noodles actually. so i'm like ok, butwhere are the noodles. and the woman is, like,could you be little patient? but where are the noodles? this is just a block. you cut it.
what do you do with it? so they have this small kindof a piece of a-- like a lid. you know the lids which come outof the tuna box and everything so that kind of littlefinger handle, and then she had made holes in it. so what she would do thatshe wants to slide over that little block ofpotato starch block, and the noodles will come out. it's in the book.
and i'm looking atthis, and i was, like, wow, that is fantastic. so what she does isthat she makes them and then she tosses with alittle bit of garlic chili oil and all those things. but one thing which i alsofound very interesting is-- i'm not goingagainst china. please nobody quotethat-- but i found a pasta making machine whichis more than 1,000 years old
in northwest of bhutan. and i'm going to showyou a picture of that. and it is like ahuge lemon press, like the lemon presswe have to squeeze lemon juice or the garlic press? they had this kindof wooden thing. now, this is that potatonoodles with chili paste. this is how she figuredout that there's a big block of potatostarch thing which
was potato starchjust cooked in water and which was quitelike thick like gelatin. it's very much like jelly. and then she scraps itwith this little thing. and this is what comes out. vikas khanna: and i was like,this is a beautiful story. so the whole bookwhen it was created, it was almost 2,600pages of research. the whole book would'vegone-- but then
it will become veryunuser-friendly, and cost effective. shipping will be a problem. i can tell you rightnow, i can't serve that. to make that for 1,000 bowls,i think my hand will fall off. vikas khanna: you know, practiceis what makes them so fast. one scrape, and bowl is ready. how fast she was. and there's onemore thing which i
want to say about thededication page of this book. this book is dedicated tothis woman whom i don't know, and i will never possiblybe able to meet her again. i'm quite forgetful,and i know that. so i had this small computervaio, that black one, the cheapest one i used to have. so i had everythingdocumented there, and this is the laststop, 108 caves. so there was asmall place, which
was like last time i'mgoing to have butter tea. so i wanted to have my lastbutter tea in total peace. and then we had a smallvan-- like the maruti van which used to come in india. it's a 10-seater van. my driver is like run, run, run! so i ran out, and i forgotmy laptop in the bag next to my chair. and i forgot, andi'm totally excited.
and now i'm getting carriedaway with the new sights and everything. i still had my little camera. i took all this pictures myself. so i'm clicking more images. and suddenly, the bus stopped. there was a tibetan womanfrom the top of the hill. she ran down the slope togive my computer back to me. incredible.
vikas khanna: and i'm trying togive her something, because i don't know how to react to this. like nobody has done thiskind of running for me. so she shrugged, and shesaid something in tibetan. i asked the driver. she said that anyonewould have done that. vikas khanna: and she musthave that ran about two miles, more than that. and that sight never leaves me.
you know, the married womenwear apron-looking dresses, and they are so beautiful. she must be in her 60s, buther running down that hill and giving me the computer iswhy this book is born today. i would have lost almost all mydata, everything, all images. and more than that, i wouldhave lost hope that i can do it. and that hope ledto another hope, and that led to anotherhope, which got me here. irfan dama: that is incredible.
i have to tell you ispent two years in delhi, when i worked at the[inaudible] sheraton. and that was when i wasfirst introduced to momos. i'd never heard aboutmomos before that. there was a small littlerestaurant in chana ke puri, where all the [inaudible]students used to go. and they would have momos. and i think the firsttime, i had a thing-- it had 60 momos or something.
it was so good. so you have covered momos togreat degree in this book. give us something realquick about momos. it's such an incredible dish. vikas khanna: you know, momosis a very interesting dough. it's a very interesting dough. it's just flour, salt and water. and then use your instinct. it needs to be a firm dough,because if you let it rest,
cover with a wet clothfor half an hour. that's all you need. but lot of people wheni was doing any classes or doing my training of myown chefs in the restaurant, we were worried aboutthe shape of the momos, you know that intricateshape, in which we do touch a lot of thatshapes in his book. but one thing was whichis-- i tell them, tell people who careshow the shape is.
but the beauty of momosis that you can stuff them with anything you have, anyleftovers, any restaurant food which is left. it needs to be dry for sure. and if you haveminced meat, just add some salt andlemon juice to it. you could just stuff that in. steaming is a greathealthy way to eat. but one more thing,which i figured out,
that you could actuallymake momos with whole wheat flour too. and you can use alot of greens too. and this is one of myfavorite test stories about. i go to this woman's house. this is in paro. it's the capital of bhutan. this is actually theonly city in the world where there's no traffic lights.
i think there'sone traffic signal in bhutan, the wholeof the country. and nobody breaks traffic rules! when i got my driver'slicense-- again, i come back to driving-- inbhutan, they drive so well. they have so muchrespect for nature. they don't honk. they don't do anything. i don't know.
it's a totally differentthought process, in which they say,we don't honk, not to disturb theother driver, but we don't honk todisturb the nature. vikas khanna: soi was like, wow. so this woman has this, and sheis making me the butter tea. if you've ever seenthis movie called "seven years in tibet,with brad pitt," the last line of the movieis that "butter tea was never
my cup of tea." this is a tea, which is madewith tea, little bit of milk, water, lots of yakbutter, and salt. i know it doesn'tsounds delicious at all. it is not. vikas khanna:first sip, you will say i can't be having thisfloating grease in my mouth, like are you serious? but you went to anyone'shouse, it was there.
so i write about this that i gotso upset with this butter tea. so in my littleapartment in manhattan which is the size of a matchbox,it only smelled of butter tea. so anyone who'd come tovisit me, i'll [inaudible]. and people are,like, are you weird? we're never comingback to your house again if this is the next timeyou're going to do this to us. but this woman, had thiskind of a stirrer, a whisk, which is from a tree.
so i asked her can i have that? she said you can have anything,but you can't have this. it was given to meby my mother-in-law. i said ok. so i loved that. a whisk i could not buy. but i wanted to take a pictureof it to put in the book and say, eventually,when i was walking out, her daughter gave itto me, because she
saw that my heart was likeoh my god, that's a whisk? it looked exactly like a whisk. it's a top of a tree. and they use that to make tea. i thought this is really great. and i thought, that organicnessis something which connects us all to something which isvery pure, that simplicity. irfan dama: that isvery, very incredible. i have to ask you thatincredible story you told us
in 2005 when the dalailama touched your forehead. and then, you now have himwriting the forward in "return to the rivers." how did thathappen-- you managed to get him writingfor your book. that's incredible. tell us about it. vikas khanna: destiny? pure destiny.
i always feel thatthere was something so honest in what i was doing,when i was writing this. i was not worried about if mynext meal is going to come, what is going tohappen to my life. it's like what am i doing? but there was something in theuniverse which was constantly guiding me and telling me youare doing the right thing, son. and it was somethingis telling me that i choose peopleto do projects,
like there was abigger power telling me that you didn'tchoose this project. i chose you to do this project. and when i met his holiness,he was asking me questions. he was literallytrying to test me. so i went formeditation with him. and kalachakra is thebiggest buddhist congregation which happens in bodh gaya. bodh gaya is a place in indiawhere buddha was enlightened.
so at kalachakra, wehave lot of people. and i thought i will neverget to be sitting with him, because richard gere's there,and everybody from hollywood there. and [inaudible] looking at me. basically, he pulls me on. and he starts talkingto me about the project. i'm, like, really? and then there wasanother guy who
was there, who wascomplaining nonstop. oh you don't know, ihave so much money. but i don't understandwhy my kids left me, my wife is getting marriedand she didn't inform me. and my [inaudible] that athim, and say "my friend, you need scotch." vikas khanna: stopcomplaining, he tells that way. he does! you think, youstarted this intent
through saying thatyou are so rich. stop feeling bad about yourself. stop feeling bad. on top of that,you're telling me how poor you are becauseyou can't connect to anyone? and i'm like oh my god, lookat his presence of mind. and then he tells me--immediately, looks at you, says did you go to-- i said, yes. i went to amdo.
bundle is his birthplace. i knew it somehow that he'sgoing to ask me that question. and i said i learned how tomake your favorite bread there. it's "amdo bread" in the book. and he just keptholding my hand. and that guy keptcomplaining in the behind. like, but what do you wantme to do it with my life? you know, i have so much money. he does this toget him to shut up.
but he wanted to hearthe story of bread, which is his childhood bread. he goes back to dharamshalaand within almost three weeks, i get a letter from hisoffice, about congratulating me of accomplishing this project. and that's the forward. irfan dama: incredible. i don't know how manypeople in the world would be able to have this.
i am so impressed. i've got to ask you one lastquestion as a chef looking to you. you have accomplished so much. it's so much. i mean, we could neverdream of accomplishing 13 books and somany appearances. but you don't take time to rest. is there going to be timefor life any time soon.
is there going to bea mrs. vikas khanna? irfan dama: someday, areyou going to take a break and just say time to enjoywhat i have accomplished? vikas khanna: i feel thatthis platform is fantastic. i went to launchthis book in india. i wanted my motherlandto see this book first. i don't know what--i'm not that patriotic. i take it is as i feel. so jaipur lit festival isthe largest literary festival
in india, whereoprah went last year and then before that, deepakchopra's spoken there. salman rushdie was notallowed to speak there, but i was allowed. irfan dama: good on you! good on you! excellent. vikas khanna: so they neverhad a chef there before, jaipur lit festival.
they never had acookbook launch there. it's the largest southasian literary festival, and i'm just going there. and i'm a littleworried because i know there's goingto be a lot of press. so i'm asking thepeople at the festival, do you rent people justto fill up my place? i don't want to bestanding there alone, that, ok, i came all the wayfrom america to open this book.
so all throughout, i'm askingpeople, so can you come? they say, yeah, we'll come. it's like i can pay you guys. i'm thinking i shouldhave 100 rupees notes and i would give it to everyone. please come for this. so i go there,there's a bollywood director who's talking there. so he has almost like100 people there.
so i'm like can wetell these people that after this that--he thinks chef, can you be a littleless paranoid? you're scaring us. you know what, it'sgoing to such an insult, like, here i'm talkingthat i don't want to open this bookin america first. i want to open thisbook in india first. and i call my mom.
and she's like no,i'm not interested. vikas khanna: i thought nobody'sready to come to my book lecture. and they said we put youin the google mughal tent. i said i don't knowwhat that means, that people haveto google my tent? so there's a place injaipur lit festival. it's called google mughal tent. and they said chef, please,we don't want your anxiety
going all over the place. we have people waiting heresince last night in the tent. vikas khanna: i went there. they were more than3,000 people waiting to see this book beingopened in front of them. vikas khanna: so i felt thatwas my bigger accomplishment than having a lifepartner or having anything else in my life. i hold this booklike this, and i
could hear peopleyelling and crying. i said this is symbol of home. as i told, i'm there, andi looked at all this kids. and then it was difficult forme to get out of the crowd, because i disturbed thatwhole festival for that day. i know that. because i went up andtold them the story of why i came back home,because i said, because in my favoritebook, jonathan livingston
comes back home. i wanted to go back homeand see how the home was. irfan dama: wonderful. well, just by saying thatyou've no time for a life or a wife-- thesexiest chef around. i don't know how many heartsare broken in the audience. but truly, an incredible story. you know, how you can tell youthat you talked to a real chef? this is from a tandoor.
his hands arereally, really worn. these scarred hands. vikas khanna: you neverneed to go for waxing. everything isburned, everything. you never need to ever for it. if everybody wants to goget a nice free waxing, say, can i put my handin the tandoor? so you get perfect clean waxing. people ask me, so you wax?
i said, no. oh but you haveyou're waxed one hand. irfan dama: tandoor. and what an incredible story. i'm now going to open toquestions in the audience. does anybody have anyquestions for vikas? vinod here will handyou the microphone, so if you have a question,please raise your hand and vinod will come overand give you the microphone.
audience: before 2005and after, would you say was that anything thatdifferent than you did, that you knowwhat you wanted and everything likea lot of success. what was the differencebefore and after? vikas khanna: the biggestdifference, i felt, was that there was a timewhen the transitional time of indian cuisine, i wouldsay, from their reference, that a lot of people, a lotof friends, we would meet,
who were totally in not veryapproval of indian cuisine. "i hate curry." like, you know, i heardthat word many times. but after that, i was convinced. i would patronize thecuisine, not the people. if you patronizesomething which is art, it is much biggerthan the people. i think that iswhat i was convinced in 2005, when i'dfailed so many times.
because somebody would say"change this," and i'll run. i'll change it, because iwanted to patronize everyone. in the middle of thiswhole transition, i forgot that i wouldrather be a slave to art than to be to people. for me, the culture was the art. the food was the art. i just focused onthat after that. i just stopped worryingabout-- even now,
when something has to bedone the right way, we do it. and i feel that peoplerespond more to that, than if you just keepchanging for everyone's individual perception. and yeah, i didn'tgo to great schools. initially, cooking wasthe only thing i did. but one thing i figured outyou focus only on something you're convinced about. rest is not important.
rest comes as a veryimportant by-product. i don't know if anythingmade sense what i said. audience: omg. audience: i'm a big fan. i actually have startedmy own food page. and i'm up every day,visitor of your page. and that's when i came toknow that you'll be in google, so i somehow trackeddown my friend that i really want tocome to the campus.
and i really wantedto come and see you. one question. i've sent you many messageson facebook, but haven't-- audience: --hadany response yet. irfan dama: [inaudible]that pressure. audience: i sent youa link of my page. hey, what do youthink about my page? it's a food blog. no, no response.
audience: awww. irfan dama: see, thisis why you should be married, becausemy wife answers all my facebook questions. irfan dama: and she'salways on top of things. she's my publicist, so. vikas khanna: hi. vikas khanna: i'm sorry. audience: send again?
vikas khanna: i'm not thegreatest person to click. my lady who does my-- audience: you shouldblame the publicist. vikas khanna: publicist. [inaudible] here. i'm just writinga big encyclopedia of festive foods of india. and i start this journeyfrom indus valley, what festivals theymust be celebrating,
and what foods theymust be eating. in greek, greek people orgreeks, like what language, they say that artistdies, art lives. i'm a [inaudible]believer of that. right now, and i'mthat story of mirabai which we hold in the mythology,who fell in love with krishna. and she couldn'tsee anything else. she could even haveconsumed poison. but the love was so muchgreater for something else.
so what has happenedthat i do have a lot of people who doesmy social media, also. but i am the one who saysthat today god has given me a voice, after being muteand dumb for so many years. at this time, i mustdiscover more art. so in this space and time, iwill never become a shopkeeper, like i will never havepickles coming out of my name with a smile. i'm the slave of art.
and that is whatall my energy goes. and i've apologizedin the middle of this if i'm ignoring something. audience: you're not. vikas khanna: i'mnot, but i just feel that there's somethingthat-- how many people give an opportunity given that ilive in india and america both. in america, they don'tknow that i live in india. and in india, they don'tknow i live in america.
so i think this whole confusionof time lapse, my whole life is like in different space. audience: no, we have fulltab on when you're in america and when you're in india. vikas khanna: can i cookfor you to apologize? audience: yes, do, yes. audience: can youget jimbu here? you mentioned it's sucha great alternative to cumin-based tempering.
jumbu, as we callin uttarakhand. vikas khanna: oh mygod, where are you from? audience: uttarakhandwhich is kumaun, and-- vikas khanna: wowwwww! i paid my money, he says right. somebody i figuredout i was right. audience: so i think whatis there is quite authentic. like, i think it's gone tonepal as well as uttarakhand. so can you get it?
right now, my only wayis to smuggle it through, like get it fromindia basically. vikas khanna: yeah. that's what i suggest too. irfan dama: smuggle it. vikas khanna: smuggle it. hey, you know, everytime i'm coming back, and i'm at the airport. and i'm just gettinginto the customs,
and the guy says, you're thesame guy from gordon ramsay, right? i said, yeah. are you getting in some spices? i said yes. he said ok, go. irfan dama: wow! vikas khanna: but the only thingi do is i steal and i bring. anybody recording, also?
irfan dama: it's ok. vikas khanna: love is love. but jimbu is a veryunique herb, which is used in uttarakhandcuisine and it's used in nepalese cuisine. one thing which is uniqueis that it is so delicate that what you do isthat you heat the oil, not totally burn it. you add jimbo.
instantly, you addit over lentils. it's such a fragrant,holistic smell. it's only used in lentils,in uttarakhand and in nepal. but if you would evermake a journey to mustang, in northeast of nepal, wherethey-- you must google this. google is free foryou guys anyway. vikas khanna: mustang,this is the place where they found about 1,500years old caves of buddha. they use jimbu in makingmeat and in preserving meat.
i was like wow! how do i smuggle this. but you're right. some things are verydifficult when you talk about substitutions, , becauseyou don't want to destroy the beauty of it. so i put the jimbu--call it jimbu. a lot of people say,it's not "hi- mal-yan," it's "hi ma lay an."
i said no! it's a sanskrit word. at least for one time in mylife, i'm right [inaudible]. irfan dama: all right. well, thank youeveryone for coming. and vikas-- vikas khanna: likewise. irfan dama: thank youso much for coming here.
Tidak ada komentar:
Posting Komentar